“Besides being a Trial Structure consultant and instructor, this time next year, you’re going to be the top witness prep consultant in the country!”
As we jump in my truck, those words practically fly out of my mouth to Ilya Lerma earlier this year. Driving to the Dallas airport after a deposition, I say, “You transformed my client! This witness prep will make every difference. The defense lawyer is going to be sweating all the way to trial!”
Stopping for dinner just before the flight at a small deli on Lemmon Ave., we assemble made-to-order pasta from the grill. I pile mine with veggies and meats. She loads hers with just veggies. Peas? On pasta? We scramble to the back of the brick enclosure for a high-top table. Ilya opens a single-serving bottle of rosé and pours it into a plastic-stemmed wine glass.
As we sit, I ask, “What’s the biggest impact Trial Structure has made on the way you practice law?”
Ilya replies, “After more than 20 years of practicing, it was like someone handing me a roadmap for evidence. From the moment I get a case now, I ‘see’ how every part of the case fits together. I know where it goes in a client’s story and in the presentation of evidence. If discovery is still open, I can also ‘see’ what is missing and what I need to tell the lawyer to go and get. It’s a powerful weapon against the defense.”
Trial Structure’s Katonya Johnson, set out to find out a bit more from Ilya:
(KJ) You have had quite an eventful last couple of years and especially this year. So, can you give us a recap. Let’s start with your Trial Structure consulting gigs, and how things have gone?
(IL) Yes, it’s been an eventful year. I traveled all over the country for opportunities to work with amazing trial lawyers as consulting clients. Something cool, I had the pleasure of sharing a dinner table with John Romano and his wife and learn about some of their interests outside of law. That’s pretty cool for a girl from a dusty border town! Dinner with a law legend [chuckles].
As for the consulting, many of my cases settled but overall the results are strong. I was involved in two seven-figure verdicts and several seven-figure settlements on cases where I consulted on the structure or witness prep. I have several repeat clients, which is stellar. That’s a great way of affirming value-added services, right? Plus, I’m cultivating a new level of witness prep experience that is evolving a few unique skill sets that allow me to reach a client and allow their story to really emanate. Those transformations, like with Chuck’s client that I worked with in Dallas, deepen the passion for what I’m doing right now.
(KJ) Speaking of cases settling, what’s your experience with how cases go after you leave from structuring it?
(IL) They definitely settle often, but – – since the lawyer feels ready for trial with the armor of Trial Structure supporting them, they have the confidence to hold out for the right dollar amount instead of giving into the pressure of uncertain results. So, I’m seeing good value settlements on structured cases.
Many times, lawyers think: “Well, I just can’t afford to hire a consultant or go to a 4-day seminar right now.” or “This case is too small to warrant the expense.” My response is: “Trial Structure is an investment in the long term. Don’t think of it as just this case.” The lawyer becomes familiar with how Trial Structure works and how to apply it to any case. They develop new skills and an understanding of where to concentrate discovery efforts. So, my response is, “Can you afford to put this off? How many cases do you need to lose or take a hit on value before it becomes financially prudent to invest in your practice?”
(KJ) That makes sense! Besides doing all the consulting, witness preparation, and running your own practice, which is also humming along, you’ve been out and about speaking across the country. Tell us about that.
(IL) I’ve had the great pleasure of training lawyers in Trial Structure all over the country; individuals, small firms, and plaintiff’s trial organizations with a focus on women’s organizations. In the introductory course, my favorite thing to say is, “Trial Structure is a rabbit hole in the sense that it has a lot of depth. . . . . and just when you think it might end. . .it just keeps going and your skills will follow.” It takes practice to become proficient, but lawyers notice a marked improvement from the first time they deploy it. I believe in this method so much. To have a part in making these worthwhile cases and these dedicated lawyers have a stronger chance at success is beyond words. I’m so grateful to be a part of this team.
(KJ) That is exciting! Tell us about some of the speaking gigs you’ve had, especially with the women’s groups.
(IL) I presented to the Alliance of Women Trial Lawyers (AWTLA) at their very well-organized national conference in New Orleans that had a treasure trove of great speakers. There were several hundred women trial lawyers in California at the Consumer Attorneys Association of Los Angeles (CAALA). I was fortunate to share a stage with the legal Amazons like Randi McGinn, Karen Koehler, and a legend-in-the-making and my friend, Bibi Fell. I spoke with several state associations, including Washington State Association for Justice (WSAJ) and New Jersey Association for Justice (NJAJ) and co-presented at the TBI MedLegal conference in San Diego. Of course, the biggest honor was co-presenting with the creator of the Trial Structure, my mentor and colleague, Alejandro Blanco. That was the Weekend with the Stars in New York for the American Association for Justice (AAJ) last December. More legends like Mark Lanier, Mark Mandell, David Wenner . . .and there we were . . . Trial Structure! Hard not to get a little starstruck myself . . .
(KJ) What is something that you’ve taken from these experiences about how to improve public speaking and presentation?
(IL) I would say, knowing and loving your topic are the best start to any good presentation. I’ve learned so much from my colleagues and constant focused practice. Those two things evolved a comfort level with the material. Charles Bennett has such proficiency with the pieces. He’s a master journeyman when it comes to Trial Structure, and I use him to set goals. AIso, I always pay close attention to sessions where Brett Turnbull and Jamie Holland are presenting because their personalization of Trial Structure is next-level. Kyle Sherman has a great eye for how to assemble what the story should look like. Last but not least, working shoulder-to-shoulder with Sensei Blanco [laughs] is cultivating how to anticipate and navigate hurdles with greater skill and a lot more calm. From there, I hone my unique abilities by constantly practicing. I disassemble and reassemble cases constantly – – – sometimes only days before trial.
Fortunately, now I don’t really have to think about improving public speaking skills at all because my love for this work comes through. The science behind it, the methodology, the confidence that it affords lawyers to spot patterns. I often use the word “transform” but it’s really more like the old alchemic way of talking about “transmutation”. The alchemists learned that applying heat and pressure to metals – – – they changed. The electrical, magnetic, and atomic structural properties evolved into something with different properties, qualities, values. That’s what happens with Trial Structure . . . the particles, our case, the evidence, take on new properties within the furnace of Trial Structure.
(KJ) That’s so interesting! Tell us your philosophy behind witness prep. What do you do with it? What is your normal witness prep that you might have and what are you trying to do with the witness when you go in?
(IL) I had an awful experience in my very first big civil trial 20 years ago in a wrongful death case. I was a very young lawyer and our client literally froze on the stand and was simply unable to get his story out because he was so deeply traumatized. We prevailed on a gross negligence standard and then got pummeled when it came to damages. No one saw it coming, not the other lawyers or the therapist. So, with that lens, I give witness prep and direct exam a verystrong focus. In general, it’s a very underestimated and very underutilized resource by lawyers.
You can have the best evidence in the world, but if your client can’t relay their story in a compelling way, then why should a jury care? We are humans talking about human losses. Your client needs to be able to do that in a meaningful way.
There is a methodical approach to recovering accurate recollections from clients that they can be comfortable using in court. Telling their story accurately in an opening statement and eliciting the proper details during direct examination is critical to your credibility as the lawyer. When a client knows and understands how that’s going to happen, knows that there’s a roadmap and a general pattern, all of the surprises are removed and they are comfortable with talking about really intimate, sometimes painful things to a room full of strangers.
Sometimes lawyers will say, “Is this going to sound coached?” Never. Because you never tell a client what to say. You never have to tell them to memorize their deposition. Any pressure of thinking they have to get the words “right” goes away. It is their story . . their words. All they have to do is become familiar with the steps of being able to retrieve it. Being in court is already nerve-wracking and new for them. They worry about getting emotional or saying something “wrong”. A good prep removes those fears and trades them for an armored chain-mail and tools to deal with anything ahead.
(KJ) What’s on the agenda for Ilya Lerma in 2020? What are you expecting?
(IL) I enjoy consulting, so I’ve made a deliberate choice to concentrate my practice to a few complex litigated matters in my home state of Arizona and a few other states where I associate pro hac vice. I’m inviting opportunities to work with more trial lawyers on a myriad of different cases. That alchemy of transmutation of lawyers and their cases really excites me so I’m gravitating there as my practice allows.
(KJ) That excites all of us! That was great! I heard a rumor that you’re going to be president of the Arizona Trial Lawyers Association?
(IL) Yes. I’m currently the Vice President. So, then President-Elect, and in 2021, President of the Arizona Trial Lawyers Association (AZTLA) and the Arizona Association for Justice (AAJ). What a great group of mentors and colleagues. I have so much respect for these lawyers. It’s pretty humbling to lead a group of people you grew up admiring. I can honestly say, if not for them, I probably never would have ventured out into things like Trial Structure. As President, I look forward to expanding the role of our women trial lawyers. It would be cool to have dozens of tables packed full of women like we had in California! That was inspiring.
(KJ) What’s the one thing you think is most important about Trial Structure for lawyers thinking about hiring you to consult or attend a seminar?
(IL) That’s easy. Here it is: Defense lawyers are good in trial because they’ve tried the same case for 40 years! Their defenses are always the same and highly predictable. So why do we reinvent the wheel on every case?” We can see them coming! Why not prepare for that instead of tread in the constant state of unknown like we have to ‘wait to see what happens at trial’? When I realized this, the lid came off! Bruce Lee said, “I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once. I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times.” Structure is our one kick. Ideally, it becomes a kick in the pants to the defense!
So, after pasta and rosé, we head over to Love Field Airport in Dallas. Ilya hops from my truck, snags her bag, and weaves through the airport crowd with a quick wave. As her short, wild, blonde hair disappeared in the crowd, I thought about what Eric Butterworth once wrote, “Don’t go through life, grow through life.”